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TechSupport · Guru

RE: 33920-65G91 Baleno 1.6 to go into a sierra.

kostuch · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
The 1.37ms is with no scaling factor so a correction of approx. 1.7 needs to be applied. MAP is scaled as raw_data/2, so far that has been accurate but I can put a scaling factor into the config file if necessary.

I see in csv, that scale factor for injector pulse is 1 (at least for 1943 and 1843 ecu).

Is it mistake, or two byte value is directly the pulse duration in microseconds?

TechSupport · Guru

I finally found some time to look at this again. I messed up some of the addresses, I think I mixed up hex with decimal in a couple of places.

Ignition Timing is at 0Fh - 40h = 10degs, C0 = 55degs

12h is IAC Flow Duty, 80h = 50%

17h is canister purge, 80h = 50%

18h is EGR, 80h = 50%

Fuel trims are 13h->15h 0h ->255h = -2.5 to +2.5 (% I think)

TechSupport · Guru

Are you getting a reading from your O2 sensor? I ran up my Baleno just now and the O2 sensor is stuck near zero even when temperature reaches over 80C.

I can control RPM from RV but nothing else seems to work at the moment. I need to check the FSM and code to see what controls I should have.

TechSupport · Guru

zukjeff wrote:
Sort of, looks to start jump to 8 and then flip between 0 and 8. When properly loaded goes from 8 to 15 .. the car is not registered so can't road test. i'm testing load with the wheels jacked up and loading with the breaks

I'm pretty sure that that is EGR position. Its a long time and a couple of hard drive crashes since I looked at the code properly. I have that section of code marked as Ignition and it does have a table that looks like timing so I think I need to go back over it from the start.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
zukjeff wrote:
I forgot to mention that the output of the MAP has a 'Knee' in the linear trendline when you change from a vacuume to a positive pressure. I removed the raw data for 200 and 207.
That shouldn't ever happen on a N/A vehicle so I suspect that is some kind of fail safe mode. Did the CEL come on?

NO errors, Ign on , motor off. Just a bend in the trend line when plotted.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
>Baro is updated at full throttle under certain conditions,
A good reason to keep the air cleaner clean.

>Does #23 increment from 1 to 14?
Sort of, looks to start jump to 8 and then flip between 0 and 8. When properly loaded goes from 8 to 15 .. the car is not registered so can't road test. i'm testing load with the wheels jacked up and loading with the breaks

TechSupport · Guru

zukjeff wrote:
I forgot to mention that the output of the MAP has a 'Knee' in the linear trendline when you change from a vacuume to a positive pressure. I removed the raw data for 200 and 207.

That shouldn't ever happen on a N/A vehicle so I suspect that is some kind of fail safe mode. Did the CEL come on?

zukjeff · Veteran Member

I forgot to mention that the output of the MAP has a 'Knee' in the linear trendline when you change from a vacuume to a positive pressure. I removed the raw data for 200 and 207.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

box16	GPS	RV-MAP	*"5+110"**	*"5.5+10"**	*"6 -80"**
184	993	920	1020	1022	1024
186	1000	935	1030	1033	1036
191	1005	950	1055	1060	1066
182	980	915	1010	1011	1012
180	970	905	1000	1000	1000
178	960	880	990	989	988
175	930	875	975	972	970
171	900	850	955	950	946
160	830	800	900	890	880
140	750	740	800	780	760
138	700	695	790	769	748
136	680	675	780	758	736

		Local airport pressure = 1022.
		GPS Baro = 1013.
		GPS Ambient = 998.

The above table was done a few weeks ago. The right 3 columns are me trying to get Dataview box 16 to be about 1022.

TechSupport · Guru

Baro is updated at full throttle under certain conditions, because it uses the MAP sensor it can only update when the manifold pressure is at atmospheric. It will also only update when the atmospheric pressure changes which isn't going to happen very quickly - unless you are sprinting up Pike's Peak!

If you check Baro at key on is that value captured correctly for Baro? I am looking at a Vit ECU at the moment and it doesn't seem to be correct.

The Baleno may not output VE.

Does #23 increment from 1 to 14?

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Baro looks ok at #17 on a 1943. Its not updated all the time , some combination of real driving conditions must cause a reread.

#23 goes up from 0 to 14 with load but only when the motor is warmed up ( not sure if its temp or Oxy that thresholds it.)

What does the register data for VE look like ?

TechSupport · Guru

zukjeff wrote:
If MAP is a single byte register (0 - 255) how do you get 600 to over 1000 with a /2 ?
Sorry it should be *5. The config file doesn't differentiate between MAP/MAF and VAF so the scaling factors are AFMGAIN and AFMOFFSET.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 08:02:46 PM

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Sorry , i read "there is no scaling currently applied" as non needed , not that it still needed to be applied.

If MAP is a single byte register ( 0 - 255) how do you get 600 to over 1000 with a /2 ?

TechSupport · Guru

The 1.37ms is with no scaling factor so a correction of approx. 1.7 needs to be applied. MAP is scaled as raw_data/2, so far that has been accurate but I can put a scaling factor into the config file if necessary.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

if that plot is 0.5ms/div then the pulse on the scope looks to me to be 2.25ms , not 1.37 ?

Whats your MAP scaling factor ( not shown in datastream ).

RV raw box16 Vs RV-Dash-MAP looks to be y=4.52x+81.

My tests today using a Hiking GPS in a lunch box connected to a T to the MAP gives me Y=4.99x+41.

Rv-Dash-MAP Vs my hiking GPS are are about 7% out ( y=1.11x-59).

I only tested with a MAP pressure frrom 1025 down to 675, atmo today was 993.

TechSupport · Guru

This is my scope trace for the injector pulse width with the engine fully warmed up and at idle. RV was showing 1.37ms - there is no scaling currently applied.

65G61 injector pulsewidth at idle

For some reason I wasn't able to get the print screen function to work.

TechSupport · Guru

17 is definately the baro.

The scaling factor for injector pulsewidth is approx. 1.9.

15 looks like either ignition or ISC, I can only check it stationary.

23 - Have you got EGR? I will recheck the code to see if I have made a mistake with the PCB routing or timer channels

zukjeff · Veteran Member

sorry to hear about the Baleno!
Will you get another ?
You get a repairable wright off with 130k on the clock for $300 here.

yes the baro changed today. Will log values against the gp baro..

23 only changes with load and only when warmed up,
0 to 15 from idle to stall in 2nd at/from 3000 rpm.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

The weather ( pressure) has been stationary on 1022Kpa , the reading in RV has been still at 158.

With NO ECU input pin marked as Baro and nothing on the PCB that looks like a sender its got to be a Constant ( software or hardware ) OR a derived value from the startup pressure from the MAP...i'' have a play.

Monster would have had this Baro connected for his Pikes Peak runs

TechSupport · Guru

Baro is taken from the MAP sensor input at start up and is then continuously monitored against the MAP input - if MAP is higher than Baro then Baro is updated.

The Baleno ECU is very similar to the Jimny G13BB ECUs , although I have only done limited work on the Baleno ECU I did a lot with the Jimny ECU because that one is reflashable. I was considering using the Jimny ECU in the Baleno but the Baleno was crashed last week.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Friday 9th of March 2012 08:46:50 AM

TechSupport · Guru

This is the look up table from the 65G61 code:

OBD_ADDR_TBL:         dc.w 3ECh               ; 0 = fault codes 1
ROM:0000AA27                 dc.w 3EDh               ; 1 = fault codes 2
ROM:0000AA29                 dc.w 3EEh               ; 2 = fault codes 3
ROM:0000AA2B                 dc.w 3EFh               ; 3 = fault codes 4
ROM:0000AA2D                 dc.w 0                  ; 4 = RPMH
ROM:0000AA2F                 dc.w 1                  ; 5 = RPML
ROM:0000AA31                 dc.w 3F3h               ; 6 = Target Idle
ROM:0000AA33                 dc.w 50h                ; 7 = VSS
ROM:0000AA35                 dc.w 3F4h               ; 8 = WTS
ROM:0000AA37                 dc.w 3F5h               ; 9 = ATS
ROM:0000AA39                 dc.w 3F6h               ; 10 = TPS Angle
ROM:0000AA3B                 dc.w 28h                ; 11 = TPS Volts
ROM:0000AA3D                 dc.w 3F7h               ; 12 = O2 Sensor
ROM:0000AA3F                 dc.w 3FAh               ; 13 = Inj PWH
ROM:0000AA41                 dc.w 3FBh               ; 14 = Inj PWL
ROM:0000AA43                 dc.w 3F8h               ; 15
ROM:0000AA45                 dc.w 3F9h               ; 16 = MAP Sensor
ROM:0000AA47                 dc.w 34h                ; 17
ROM:0000AA49                 dc.w 100h               ; 18
ROM:0000AA4B                 dc.w 7Eh                ; 19 = trim1
ROM:0000AA4D                 dc.w 81h                ; 20 = trim2
ROM:0000AA4F                 dc.w 3FCh               ; 21 = trim3 = (trim1+trim2)/2
ROM:0000AA51                 dc.w 44h                ; 22 = battery volts
ROM:0000AA53                 dc.w 137h               ; 23 = interpolated value?
ROM:0000AA55                 dc.w 3FDh               ; 24 = EGR?
ROM:0000AA57                 dc.w 413h               ; 25 = ?
ROM:0000AA59                 dc.w 412h               ; 26 = ?
ROM:0000AA5B                 dc.w 409h               ; 27 = 409 not found?
ROM:0000AA5D                 dc.w 409h               ; 28
ROM:0000AA5F                 dc.w 409h               ; 29
ROM:0000AA61                 dc.w 409h               ; 30
ROM:0000AA63                 dc.w 409h               ; 31
ROM:0000AA65                 dc.w 3F0h               ; 32 = 3F0 not found?
ROM:0000AA67                 dc.w 3F1h               ; 33 = 3F1 not found?
ROM:0000AA69                 dc.w 193h               ; 34 = auto???
ROM:0000AA6B                 dc.w 186h               ; 35
ROM:0000AA6D                 dc.w 414h               ; 36
ROM:0000AA6F                 dc.w 415h               ; 37
ROM:0000AA71                 dc.w 416h               ; 38
ROM:0000AA73                 dc.w 132h               ; 39
ROM:0000AA75                 dc.w 3F2h               ; 40
ROM:0000AA77                 dc.w 409h               ; 41
ROM:0000AA79                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA7B                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA7D                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA7F                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA81                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA83                 dc.w 409h
ROM:0000AA85 end of diag_LUT

Not found means that that address isn't used in the code so it may be reserved for another variant, maybe a V6 or similar.

TechSupport · Guru

looking at the code:

address 17 looks like Baro.

address 23 looks to be Ignition timing

zukjeff · Veteran Member

dataview in unformatted mode on my 1943:

Dataview box number, function.

0, 0

1, 0

2, ( fault history)

3, (fault history..)

4,RPM(h)

5,RPM(l)

6,Target Idle (slowly drops from ~110 down to 80ish)

7,VSS

8,water temp

9,Air temp

10,TPS% 0 to 165%

11,TPS Volts

12,Oxy

13,InjPW H

14,InjPW L

15,(around 84) *****

16,MAP

17,=185 ***** (BARO ?)

18,(~46 to ~52) ***** (IAC or IGN TMNG ?)

19,STFT (~100 to ~150)

20,LTFT (~88 to ~120)

21,AFT (~120 to ~140)

22,Battery

23,( 0 to ~15, goes up with load) IGN TMNG ?

24,=0 ( Canister or status?)

page 2 status.

24 bit 0 maybe rich/lean

bit 7=fan on.

25 bit 0=

bit 1 = power steering full lock.

Bit 2 = a/c on.

Bit 3=

Bit 4= TPS at zero.

Bit 5= ( 0 = at temp/closed loop?)

Bit 6= looks like electric load.

Bit 7 =

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
...
Injector time should be displayed, I did check that on a scope. I will have to check that.

Thanx again for your help James,

Its [Ign AdV] that i need to view/log. nothing is displayed in the dashboard and 0 is shown in formatted Dataview.

TechSupport · Guru

The dashboard and the dataviewer in formatted mode both use the datastream file to determine the addresses of the data.

When displaying formatted data in the dataviewer the positions that the data appears in is hardcoded, data elements are simply displayed in a manner that was most convenient to me at the time. In raw data mode the data elements are displayed at the address at which they are received.

Injector time should be displayed, I did check that on a scope. I will have to check that.

TechSupport · Guru

You've missed out 12. 12,13 could be INJPW which is usually a 16-bit value, it will be 0 or 100 at key on amd will increase with load. Thre easy way to determine if the location is INJPW or not is to rev the engine briefly to 4000 to 5000rpm while at idle and then release the pedal very quickly. The ECU will then go to fuel cut so it will return briefly to its key on value before returning to its idle value.

I'll have another attempt at locating ignadv

zukjeff · Veteran Member

dataview in unformatted mode on my 1943:

Dataview box number, function.

0, 0

1, 0

2, ( fault history)

3, (fault history..)

4,RPM(h)

5,RPM(l)

6, (slowly drops from ~110 down to 80ish)

7,VSS

8,water temp

9,Air temp

10,TPS% 0 to 165%

11,TPS Volts

12, Oxy

13, InjPW

14, InjPW 2nd byte

15, (around 84)

16, MAP

17,=185

18,(~46 to ~52)

19,(~100 to ~150)

20, (~88 to ~120)

21,(~120 to ~140)

22, Battery

23, ( 0 to ~15, goes up with load)

24,=0

page 2 status.

24 bit 0 maybe rich/lean

bit 7=fan on.

25 bit 0=

bit 1 = power steering full lock.

Bit 2 = a/c on.

Bit 3=

Bit 4= TPS at zero.

Bit 5= ( 0 = at temp/closed loop?)

Bit 6= looks like electric load.

Bit 7 =

-- Edited by zukjeff on Wednesday 7th of March 2012 08:55:17 AM

zukjeff · Veteran Member

Oh...i see said the blind man... after reading http://rhinopower.activeboard.com/t30460082/latest-news/ 3 times i think i have it.

A number on the ECU column in datastream.csv is the box what it will show in in dataview. if nothing is in the box the data in formatted mode will be blank. if there is a number in the box then it will show in the formatted view and have the function name displayed in the border of the box.

The functions displayed on the main dash screen that are correct are looked up by RV by fixed code and not from input from the datestream file. Things like Injector time that do not show in the main dash or in formatted dataview need to be checked and a correct number entered under the ECU column for the ECU you are using. (?)

I was looking to see if any comms were visible on the bus when i toggled the alarm. power ON of the ign gives a 0x00, i was testing to see if it came from the ECU or from the alarm.

-- Edited by zukjeff on Monday 5th of March 2012 09:50:05 PM

-- Edited by zukjeff on Tuesday 6th of March 2012 02:53:33 AM

TechSupport · Guru

This is an old document describing how the file is laid out, the basic principles are unchanged:

http://rhinopower.activeboard.com/t30867725/ecu-definition-files/

The VSS is function 6 and is read at address 7.

The processor in the ECU will be in a low power 'halt' mode when the ignition is off, I don't believe that there is a wake up on Rx function so it will not respond to serial link requests.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

i got termite to work so will check my functions against the ones in RV as i'm still getting data in some Dataview fields in raw mode with no data in formatted mode and vise-versa.. I can get the ID? with 0x13040bde =>13041ACF => 1A

can someone tell me what the numbers in the column below the ECU ID is for in datastream.csv. I thought it was the function number of the 1943 ECU compared to the RV index number on the left of the function text name.

Assume ECU 1943 where we have for example some of these:

6 VSS ........36

13 TPS(ang)...20

30 Batt Volts... [blank]

I can see battery voltage in RV so i know its a known function for the 1943 but there is no number in the 1943 column ?

I try to enter 20 (0x14) in string 0x130414D5 i get what looks like TPS WOT switch and not variable values.

I did try to see if any data was sent to the bus when the Ign is off and i push the remote centeral locking.. no enable/dissable data but BOY was there a LONG string of groups of 0x00 when the alarm went off at 10:30pm ... it seamed to be able to turn the neighbours lights on too <

-- Edited by zukjeff on Monday 5th of March 2012 12:03:49 PM

zukjeff · Veteran Member

yep , can confirm the 637revs/km sj410 speedo has 4 poles.

TechSupport · Guru

The stock speedo has four poles giving four pulses per revolution of the speedo cable, usually the Vitara VSS is used which is a reed switch to ground. The ECU counts edges, its an interrupt into the TPU.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

[ thinking out aloud] while looking at my old sierra speedo gear page:

http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~jeff/speedo.htm

My Baleno VSS sender has 15 teeth.

Its two wire inductive pickup outputs a sine wave of 16 cycles per revolution of the end gear.

When in the Baleno it looks to output 8 cycles per rev of the wheels ( 4 cycles per rev with one wheel on the ground ).

A 175/70-13 has a circumfrence of ~1800mm/rev

Thats 555 wheel revs per Km.

8x 555 = 4440 pulses per Km

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sierra dash = 1025 revs/Mile = 637 revs/Km.

hm... need to test how many poles the magnet in the speedo has ( i have a hall sender in there already..)

Also need to find out if the ECM looks at pulse time or duty cycle.

-- Edited by zukjeff on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 07:22:19 AM

TechSupport · Guru

zukjeff wrote:
i'm too slow and your too quick.. i ment to ask about thed link to
"http://www.ECUs/65G61/docs/Baleno_wiring.zip"
Do i discuss VSS P/Rev and sierra speedo gearing here or in a project thread ?

OOps, sorry that should be:

http://www.Rhinopower.org/ECUs/65G61/docs/Baleno_wiring.zip

Fior the VSS I used a Vitara VSS on the speedo head and then made an adapter using a small PIC microcontroller to get the frequency right. I measured the input frequency using th einput capture module and outputted the new frequency using the output compare function. I can't remeber the ratios, I lost a lot of stuff in a hard drive crash a few years ago.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

i'm too slow and your too quick.. i ment to ask about thed link to

"http://www.ECUs/65G61/docs/Baleno_wiring.zip"

Do i discuss VSS P/Rev and sierra speedo gearing here or in a project thread ?

TechSupport · Guru

zukjeff wrote:
thanx James , but are there some letters missing from
..http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34833...
i'm getting everything from finantial advice to software engineering...

That link works for me.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

thanx James , but are there some letters missing from

"http://www.ECUs/65G61/docs/Baleno_wiring.zip"

i'm getting everything from finantial advice to software engineering...

-- Edited by zukjeff on Monday 16th of January 2012 11:09:01 AM

TechSupport · Guru

Hi Jeff

I checked out your picture, this is the same ECU that another Aus guy had a couple of years back, it is the same PCB as the 65G61 fitted in my Baleno but without the immobiliser and without most of the emissions control stuff. Check out this theread:

http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34833

TechSupport · Guru

Hi Jeff

There is a wiring diagram for the 2000 model Baleno here:

http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/65G61/docs/Baleno_wiring.zip

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Monday 16th of January 2012 12:34:42 PM

TechSupport · Guru

RE: Another Baleno 1.6 to go into a sierra.

zukjeff · Veteran Member

33920-65G91 Baleno 1.6 to go into a sierra.